CBC Radio 3 Blog - TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

01

Good Day To All!!

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

First of all I like to say that a small levy on mp3 players would not be the worse thing ever.

Also how would you like to have these in your house?

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/07/giant.rat.papua/index.html

02

Metallica

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Also I like that photo of Lars they used for that piece.

03

It's Wenzdee!!

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Thanks for that great bluesy rendition today!

Normally I would say that people are entitled to their opinions, but if you don't like It's Wenzdee as far as I am concerned you may as well switch to sports talk radio.

04

@MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

I like those giant rats, i would only need to catch one to feed the entire family, much more efficient than those lame normal rats.

That bionic heart song sounds like playing Defender on acid. I'm assuming actually, I've never played Defender.

05

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Would you cook them with the head on or off?

06

@stevierayk & MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Dr.Ducks

Wouldn't you want to leave the head on. It would be touch, presentation wise, to put a crab apple in there.

07

head on for sure

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

I would actually shove a smaller rat into its mouth

08

RATS!

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Now I am getting hungry.

09

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Dr.Ducks

Nice! It might be better with a guinea pig and then a mouse. A la turducken.

10

MP3 Player Fee

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Wait now that I think of it yeah it is sort of double taxing us.

11

What about a rat tax?

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

Enter Comment Here:

12

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

I have been illegally breeding giant rats for years without paying the rat people. I believe rats should be free for everyone.

13

mp3 player levy

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by crows feet

opposed.

14

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Only if the rat downloads music

15

Please, MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

Please tell me that when you say you've been "breeding giant rats" that it's with other rats.

16

rats

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by crows feet

opposed.

17

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Officially I will tell you Yes its with other rats.

Unofficially if you see a 6 foot tall rat man you will know its origins.

18

Rat Taxes

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by keydive

It is about time we started taxing those free loading rats I am all for your initiative Craig.

19

OK.

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

Enough rats.

20

rats

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by crows feet

http://www.flickr.com/photos/necilbug/3901800234/in/photostream/

21

moving on...

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Craig is right giants rats a sooo 10 mins ago. Tiny Elephants are in right now. I think they would taste great dipped in hot sauce.

22

Copying fee

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

I think this has always been a stupid fee, even when it was just on blank CDs and tapes.

But so long as we're going to have the stupid fee, it makes sense that it should apply to MP3 players too.

23

@MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

Let's get back to what you said at the very beginning here:

"a small levy on mp3 players would not be the worse thing ever"

No one else seems to agree thus far.

24

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

I don't think I even agree with it anymore, because I wasn't thinking about the fact that you pay for the MP3's or the album. I would be for it if it somehow gave you license to actual music. Maybe some sort of subscription service, and I say maybe because it would have to be one hell of a service.

25

Eugene Tax… er Levy

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by tb3

Am I the only one that thinks that more of the money that they'd be "levying " on behalf of the artists, would actually go to administering the program, than to the artists they seek to protect?

And secondarily, taxing the device is like taxing cars, because some people can speed in them.

It makes more sense, if the artist charges off the bat what they want for the song, knowing that to some extent people will want to be able to use that song in a variety of ways of listening to it. Not just on a CD, or record, or one iPod singularly – but on each of those devices they own.

They paid for it, let them enjoy it. Often and anywhere.

Because no matter what you tax, tariff, levy, police or fine for, there will always be people who don't believe in what is fair.

Prohibition worked right?

Instead of finding new things to tax, erase the industry of middlemen that lie between the artist and its fan, each one adding their percentage to the price of music to help get the music to market.

It would be nice if one day an artist could charge $10 for an album, sell it to a fan, and put that $10 – all of it – in their pocket.

And for no one to think we need to quibble over how many devices that fan wants to enjoy the music on.

26

@tb3

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

Hell, I'd be happy if I could believe that $5 of the $10 I was paying was going to the artist.

27

@tb3

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Erasing the middlemen. I agree, but damn good luck. A lot of hidden power in the middle.

28

MP3 levy

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

You people shouldn’t have a problem with the levy on MP3 players.
As big indie radio people, you already show more support for music and arts.
The levy is there to get money back into the hands of the artists who create all this wonderful music that makes us all happy. Record companies steal most of an artist’s money, that’s whom we should be complaining about.

29

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

Wanting to support artists doesn't mean I want to pay for music twice.

And is whether artists get money really your only criteria for whether a fee is good? Would you support a fee on paper coffee cups that goes to musicians and songwriters, to compensate them for the fact that many people listen to music while drinking coffee?

30

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by tb3

I think 70% of this ballyhooing about taxing this and that, and charging fans for stealing comes from record industry and their lobbyists and are terrified that soon people are artists are going to realize that record industry is unnecessary.

That an artist can make the art, and the fan can buy that, without needing that whole industry that's sole business model was based from skimming from both sides to help them better connect is very scary for those in between.

31

@Absotively

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Have you ever illegally download a song before?

Before you answer, Yes I have.

32

or even had a mixed tape?

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Enter Comment Here:

33

@Absotively

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by tb3

It is why I prefer to wait and buy albums from bands at their shows. And if I can't do that I will email and ask the band what way puts the most money in their pocket, and give the most power. Most often that puts me in the local independent record store.

34

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by keydive

Small fee? With the government it is never just a small fee. On CD's it pretty well doubled the cost of buying a blank CD. And knowing the government they will justify a $100 fee because you don't buy a mp3 player every few months so they will justify it for the copying they expect you do over the years.

My other main problem with the whole idea of the levy. As it is assuming the guilt of an individual which is where I took issue with the fee's on CD's. Through the levy's your basically accusing me of stealing music and fining me through my purchasing of a mp3 player. The fees are not a levy they are a fine for a crime they assume you committed.

35

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

Yes. And I might well support a levy on internet connections to compensate artists, although first I'd have to be convinced that piracy is actually harming artists.

But this levy is ostensibly to compensate artists for people copying music that they have paid for to an MP3 player. And I don't think artists need to be compensated for that. If I've already paid for the music, I should be able to listen to it on my MP3 player without paying again.

36

@Absotively

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Sadly the world can’t be policed on person by person system.
For every record you buy, someone scoffs one off the internet.
You’re paying for people with a lower moral code than your own.

37

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

There are very few people who pirate a lot of music but don't buy any. The internet is not actually crawling with morally lacking thieves.

It's quite hard to measure whether most artists are harmed or helped by piracy. But a lot of the evidence is on the side of 'helped'.

I'm not going to be willing to pay to compensate artists for piracy unless someone convinces me that artists are actually losing money due to piracy.

38

If we're paying for those with a lower moral code

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by tb3

Should we have levies on cars to compensate for speeding?

Should beer be taxed to compensate Molson for bootlegging?

39

@Absotively

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

If you consider hundreds of thousands of people a “few”.

40

@tb3

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

You forgot a levy on paper and scanners, to compensate for book pirates.

And you could pay a small fee annually to your employer, to compensate for stolen office supplies.

41

Before the internet

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by tb3

People made tape cassettes. Even traded them. Hell I remember my brothers taping songs off the radio without every buying the album.

So why is it all of a sudden a concern?

42

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mattyjames2001

My friend goes out of his way to rip off music. Remember when Radiohead let you "pay what you want", even if it was nothing? Yeah he still torrented it.

He's under the impression that artists only make money from concerts. As dumb as that sounds, he might not be far off. For people that like the artist's whom you have to pay $100/ticket for, why also buy their album for $20?

The most popular artists get the biggest cut and are also the most downloaded. I don't see pirating really affecting indie sales, just because they aren't moving millions of units in the first place.

Like Bill Maher told Jay Z last night, the system works for about 0.05% of entertainers.

43

@tb3

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mattyjames2001

haha!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_Is_Killing_Music

44

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mikegibbons

A small fee wouldn't be a big deal, but I have heard fees on the order of $75 per mp3 player, depending on size. (http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=cccd9ce1-5279-4145-9874-a179b5be067f)

That is way too much. This would also likely apply to 50% of the cell phones that are sold now, as they also have mp3 players.

If you look at the numbers that the CPCC is quoting, they've collected 230 million and distributed 180 million. That's only 78%, with 50 million in administrative fees...

They are also looking at putting levies on flash drives, "The group is also asking for levies of $2 to $10 for memory cards, which are primarily used to store photographs in digital cameras".

45

MP3 Taxes

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by rocknrollloser

What everyone seems to have touched on is that these taxes penalize the people who are buying music, not the people who are pirating it. As such, this could prove to demotivate the people who are paying for music and give them incentive them to illegally download if they are already paying fees for doing so.

46

@everyone

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

you guys are right, music isn't worth supporting.
Go buy a beer at the bar for 5 bucks or a litre of gas for 1.00+

47

sorry, touchy subject

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

I guess I just know too many people (musicians included) who think it's a OK to steal and entire artists catalogue in one torrent.
It's not even a challenge anymore.

48

@srk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mikegibbons

The music I listen to is worth supporting, and that's why I buy CDs or mp3s. The current levy system doesn't address that, nor does it give money to only Canadian Artists.

"In other words, every time a Canadian buys a blank CD, or audio cassette today a portion of the cost is sent to artists all over the world such as Kid Rock, Justin Timberlake and Paris Hilton." from http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=cccd9ce1-5279-4145-9874-a179b5be067f

Here is a question that Vish can ask on his show to a random selection of bands of his choosing: How much money have you received from the current levy applied to blank recordable media, such as CDs and tapes? I'm willing to bet that it isn't much.

49

@RnRL

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by keydive

Ding Ding we have winner I was just about to say the same thing.

Mind you the Canadian government has a history of penalizing the law abiding in hopes of curbing the non law abiding.

50

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

Of course music is worth supporting.

But a lot of piracy either does lead to sales, or is by people who wouldn't buy the music anyways. Really. It's quite hard to say whether artists are actually losing money to piracy, even with the existence of some unrepentant downloaders.

And if, after careful study, it turned out that artists are losing money and should be compensated through a fee, I would still rather see it on my internet connection than on my MP3 player. And I would want it to be clearly about piracy; this new fee supposedly has nothing to do with piracy.

51

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by rocknrollloser

Well kids, I am on my way to Canmore to play disc golf. On the way I will be listening to my MP3 player to my legally purchased music ! woohoo

Have a good day!

52

Freedom of speech YA!!!

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MONDAYSMAN

ROCK AND ROLL!!!

53

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mattyjames2001

@mike: I once asked the guys from the DDW how much they got from me buying their album on itunes... and they said probably nothing.

@absotively: Right on. I've bought so many albums or went to shows just from hearing an artist's stuff online. Just because I download it for free once, doesn't mean I'm not going to support the artist in the future

54

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by brainwash

"Have you ever illegally download a song before?"

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I felt the urge to point out that the legality of downloading depends on where you live.

55

Numbers

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/03/6418.ars

This was the clearest data I could find on people who both pirate & buy music.

It says that P2P users' music collections are, on average, 42% pirated. Obviously, it would be nice if this number was lower, but it's nowhere near 100%. And it's hard to say whether they would have bought more if they didn't pirate music, or if they would just have smaller music collections.

56

Loved On Look

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mattyjames2001

Greg Keelor + the Sadies covering Elvis = unreal

57

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MoniSki

So I don't have time to read through all the posts... but I did see something about MikeV breeding rats..... where can I get me one of those?

58

how about those giant rats.

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Enter Comment Here:

59

@tb3

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by jcorbin007

I agree with you on buying music at shows from the artists. Sometimes I even boost their asking price to help put gas in the tank. Do you think they get very much when you purchase from iTunes? Just curious. Jon in Michigan (Windsor Phog Phan)

60

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MoniSki

perhaps someone already posted it... but funny article about the whole Beatles thing:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/newly_discovered_recordings?utm_source=a-section

61

pirating

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mattyjames2001

maybe if everyone just bought vinyl this wouldn't even be an issue......

62

@MoniSki, stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Thanks for your support, but sadly my rat business was shut down by the man.

63

I GOT MARRIED

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Jason Neve

HEY -
I GOT MARRIED ON SATURDAY.
I'VE NEVER WORKED SO HARD!
SET-UP WAS A HUGE JOB!
How did my day start?
I awoke on the couch at 6am... shivering, with bad breath and contact lenses stuck to my eyes. My best man was in my spare room / office working on his speech, and my sister and niece were sleeping in my bedroom (which has access to my clothes and bathroom, with all the stuff). I went to the garage, rolled out my bike, shoved it into the back of the U-haul, drove 5k to return the u-haul, then biked home in the rain in shorts and a tee... freezing cold, totally wet..... the rest of the day went downhill from there - until, of course the ceremony and the party - it was the best wedding ever, but I was totally exhausted.
The good news is I still have a half-keg that I take with me everywhere.... I'm keeping that sucker until its empty......

64

@Jason

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MoniSki

Congrats!! even those it was so crazy.

65

@Jason

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

Congratulations!

66

Excellent, excellent discussion.

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

67

greed breeds greed, and rats

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by phakingeh

Artists and music labels were really greedy at the beginning and were over charging everyone for music, and that wasn't fair to the listeners...then greedy people came along and wanted it for cheaper, more so for free, which wasn't fair to the music makers

why can't we just find a common ground, if not for me and you...please for the rats

68

@Jason

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Congrats man!

69

@MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

I told you you shouldn't ship to Alberta. Folks here are serious about the rat-free thing.

70

Because I'm in a good mood...

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MoniSki

Watch this:

It's a music video for the american indie group She and Him with Zooey Deschanel. The video figures Joseph Gordon Levitt. It's sweet, filmed well, and brings a smile to my face :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtVh8kVZ_XM

71

Love / Marriage

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by brainwash

Congrats, Jason, and to your missus, too!

@mattyjames2001 - such is the reason I've gone to vinyl in the past few years, wherver possible.

72

Record companies...

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

...are like the dinosaurs, lurching towards the tar pits.

They've spent years and years railing against illegal downloading, when they all had an opportunity to jump on board with it from the very beginning.

Can someone say, "electric car"?

Now, they're just a bunch of obsolete ex-musicians that are just trying to solve the problem by figuratively putting a new sweater over top of the same old shirt and calling it a new wardrobe.

73

@craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by phakingeh

dead on

74

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

But it's such a classy sweater! Why must you hate the sweater? Surely you can admit that with this one sweater, they are fashionable again. It goes so well with their bell-bottoms.

75

Here's a thought…

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by tb3

Broken Social Scene. I got into them because someone gave me the album and said you will like this.

I never paid for it, and I am pretty sure they didn't either.

But after I fell in love with it. I had since bought every album they recorded in iTunes. And since recently getting back into vinyl, I have gotten all their albums on vinyl. So now I have paid for their discography twice in two formats, and have in my ownership three legal copies of their albums (they include the MP3 download with the vinyl).

And that first album I had that I got for free from my friend that I never paid for? Long since deleted from my hard drive.

So why my devices being taxed like I'm a thief?

I know I might be a minority when it comes to how people consume and collect music. But I have to wonder why I am not used as the example of how everyone acts?

Oh yah cause then they couldn't justify taxing everyone on that basis.

@stevierayk: I'm interested in mikegibbons question since I knows you is an artist and could stand to benefit form these levies. How much have you guys received from the levy on CDs and cassettes? Has it made a difference?

76

Giant Rats

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MusicSoop

Yum!

77

@tb3

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

You are used as an example, by the people who think piracy is good. I've read examples like that in many places, though often less extreme.

Part of the problem is that the only views that seem to get discussed are those of people who think piracy is wonderful and always leads to the sort of behaviour you describe, and record companies. There aren't enough people saying that it is in some ways a problem, but is not the end of music.

78

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

There is another problem too.

Government.

Government loves the conventional way of doing things. Why? Because status quo in this country relative to the state of the world in other places is great. Government will side in the favour of the old guard most of at the expense of new ideas all in the interest of maintaining the status quo. So it doesn't surprise me that they seem to support the record companies.

However, in this case they may eventually have no choice but to dump the old guard and move into the 21st century.

79

furthermore

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Please note I am not suggesting we overthrow the entire parliamentary system. I am just stating the way in my view it works. There are many positives I can cite as well.

80

@MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

Nice try, but we all know that your first response to anything is to suggest we overthrow the entire parliamentary system.

We haven't forgotten the time you wanted to overthrow the government because you got a blister on your foot.

81

Here's One For The Water Cooler

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MusicSoop

Am I the only one who thinks Kings of Leon sound like the offspring of a Creed/Nickelback hookup? I've only heard that Use Somebody song but I thought it was a new Creed song from the beginning. Is there something I'm missing? Much rather listen to Sam Roberts or Rah Rah or Hannah G.

82

@Absotively

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

Actually I wanted to disrupt the entire chimpanzee society because I got a blister on my foot. Overthrowing parliament was because the CBC canceled Sophie.

You just can't keep your facts straight!!

83

@MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

No, you went on to the chimps because it was the middle of an election and there was no parliament to overthrow. But you complained a lot about having had to switch goals.

84

@Absotively

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

In MikeV defense, it was the the levy on the blister that really pissed him off.
Wookie style

85

@stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Absotively

The levy was on moleskin. Don't you want moles t o be fairly compensated for the use of their name?

86

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

That last rendition It's Wenzdee had a Leonard Cohen vibe to it.

87

@Absotively, stevierayk

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

All I know is that most of my ideas at the time seem like the best idea ever.

88

Where does it all stop

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Compensate the moles and the voles will be knocking at your door wanting their share.
Before you know it all mammals will treated as equals. Then no more making fun of Mikes giant rats.

89

@everyone

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mikegibbons

I'm going to the beach now. Later gators.

90

@MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

you're like The Three Wisemen, Hulk Hogan and Oprah all rolled into one guy.
So fantastic ideas should come naturally to you.
Ohhh, 1000 cigarettes, I must have a match this afternoon.

91

Good discussions, but serious. This isn't.

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Benoit from Ottawa

http://www.cracked.com/blog/clippy-finally-messes-with-the-wrong-word-doc/

92

MikeV

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

Has been flagged by CSIS.

93

@Craig

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

I knew you were working for them. You know they literally plant a flag in your skull right?

94

@Soop

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by mattyjames2001

Kings of Leon suck now. I hate to say it but it's true. I figured they were more U2-esque than theory of a creed back, (not good U2, like Vertigo U2).

If you listen to their first album, you'd never imagine they'd turn out they way they did

95

@Soop

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Even their last record was head and shoulders above this new one.
Songs like "Charmer" have no connection to the Creedlbacks
Now we hate them and they make sacks of money. funny.

96

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MONDAYSMAN

Thanks man . God bless the troops .

97

@mattyjames2001

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MusicSoop

Okay maybe I should check out some older stuff. I just couldn't figure out how they seemed to get all this indie-rock cred when they sounded like Creed.

98

@MusicSoop

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by Craig Norris

Because they're preacher's sons and they're drunks.

Interesting press.

99

MikeV's Rats

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MusicSoop

Wait I thought the best part about the huge Rats was that they are wooly. How long until I can get a Rat wool sweater. I can already hear the conversation down at the pub... "So what do you do for a living MikeV?" "I'm a herder" "Sheep, goats" "No, Wooly Rats"

100

@MusicSoop

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by MikeV

It make for interesting press.

A drunk that raises rats. I think my indie-rock cred is gonna go through the roof! Maybe I can convince my dad to become a preacher too?

101

I'm gonna pirate

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 by stevierayk

Moka only, maybe it'll make him stop it

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TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

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Comments

Good Day To All!!

Metallica

It's Wenzdee!!

@MikeV

@stevierayk

@stevierayk &amp; MikeV

head on for sure

RATS!

@stevierayk

MP3 Player Fee

What about a rat tax?

@Craig

mp3 player levy

@Craig

Please, MikeV

rats

@Craig

Rat Taxes

OK.

rats

moving on...

Copying fee

@MikeV

@Craig

Eugene Tax… er Levy

@tb3

@tb3

MP3 levy

@stevierayk

@stevierayk

@Absotively

or even had a mixed tape?

@Absotively

@Craig

@stevierayk

@Absotively

@stevierayk

If we're paying for those with a lower moral code

@Absotively

@tb3

Before the internet

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

@tb3

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

MP3 Taxes

@everyone

sorry, touchy subject

@srk

@RnRL

@stevierayk

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

Freedom of speech YA!!!

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

@stevierayk

Numbers

Loved On Look

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

how about those giant rats.

@tb3

Re: TCNH: Water Cooler Wednesday, September 9, 2009

pirating

@MoniSki, stevierayk

I GOT MARRIED

@Jason

@Jason

Excellent, excellent discussion.

greed breeds greed, and rats

@Jason

@MikeV

Because I'm in a good mood...

@stevierayk & MikeV